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Old Mar 19, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51   #61
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Well I'm happy they have taken this more visual action. I logged into Balth Int1 and saw no gold seller spambots and wasn't PM-spammed.

I think the "24-hours before trade" on new accounts is a nice step as well.

Thanks ANET for thwapping the gold-seller spammage!
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antheus
Open Proxy =/= any firewall.

They are blacklisting known proxies, not whitelisting non-proxied clients.

In other words, in order to get filtered by this, you need to actively route connection through a third-party external proxy, not associated with your network.

This kind of thing cannot happen by accident, unless your ISP is doing something really shady. Proxied connections of this type are also of considerably lesser quality when used for real-time networking.
not to mention that it is illegal for an ISP to host an open proxy. some ISP's do it, but that is becuase they are noobs and have no idea.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56   #63
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an update that shows up 2 years late, though
but oh well, why not...
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12   #64
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Everything that Anet does shows up too late. They seem to leave everything that the community requests, particularly in HA for months and months after it was actually needed. They are just slow at everything, but at least they get around to doing something eventually.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15   #65
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Anet can't do right by doing wrong with some people it seems.

Nice update. Its the first step in the right direction.

And the 24 hour thing wont hurt anyone. It is new accounts. New players aren't going to be trading, they don't know what is worth what. And they don't have nearly enough money to buy anything. And if it is an old player starting up a legit 2nd account, 24 hours isn't going to hurt him/her.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37   #66
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The only thing I want to know is:

WILL THE LOOT SCALING FINALLY BE REMOVED?!

Please
/beg
/plead

I will give anet cookies?
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41   #67
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1. I'm very pleased with the new changes and I completely agree with the policies behind them.

2. Let me repeat #1. I'm very pleased with the new changes and I completely agree with the policies behind them.

3. I am a bit apprehensive that there will be too many false positives. Adequate care is not taken with account bans, and I certainly hope support is more careful with IP bans.

4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Swift
24 hours before new account can trade?
...
As to bots - they will simply begin creating accounts and then waiting 24 hours to use that specific account - it won't slow them down as they will use a day old account while the 24 hours runs on the newly created ones. It's not like they only use one account at a time.

totally useless.
First of all, as Fusa said, the clock may have already started ticking on that account's eventual ban. If it takes 48 hours for a-net to catch up to credit card fraud and ban the account, removing 24 hours of trade cuts the value of a new account in half, doubling the cost to the RMT company.

Second of all, guessing when accounts are going to be banned and need replaced is bound to be an imprecise science. Up till now, when an account got banned, they could buy a new one on the spot and be up and running again. Now they can't do that. If they buy too many accounts in anticipation of bans that don't come as soon as expected, they waste money on more accounts than they have farming employees and/or spammable districts for; and if they buy too few accounts because bans come sooner than expected, they end up with gold farming employees and/or a spammable districts without enough accounts to exploit them. Either way the RMT company's bottom line gets driven up.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
... doubling the cost to the RMT company.
You're missing the point, gold sellers don't really *buy* their own accounts, they hack, keylog, etc etc. It doesn't cost them what it cost you and me to buy the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
...they could buy a new one on the spot and be up and running again. Now they can't do that.
They don't have to. They'll just grab one of those they hacked (for free)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
..... they waste money on more accounts than they have farming employees
Hello?! A bot is not a human, it's a computer program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
.... and/or spammable districts for...
Hello?! A bot is not a human, it's a computer program. It just needs to sit on the district and say "Go to gold.blahblah.com" to you and me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
...they end up with gold farming employees.
Bots are already programmed and do not request a salary lol. No one needs to sit there and tell it "ok go to storage now, deposit money. ok, go kill a monster", it's all automated, hence the reason they are called "bots".
Last edited by lorazcyk; Mar 19, 2008 at 03:56 AM // 03:56..
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
I'm saying that the method they are using to enforce these rules shows a lack of good discretion.
Your post seems to contradict your conclusion. (I assume you mean their method of picking what rules to enforce than their technical method of enforcing said rules.) They don't enforce rules that are obviously there primarily as a CYA measure. Instead, they enforce those rules that harm the game economy, user account security and the gameplay experience. Why would you want them not to enforce these rules?

I suppose you are trying to make the point that it is better to have a good design than to buttress a bad design with lots of rules. Regardless of the merit of that position, it is not an enforcement issue, which is all this update is about.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esan
Your post seems to contradict your conclusion. (I assume you mean their method of picking what rules to enforce than their technical method of enforcing said rules.) They don't enforce rules that are obviously there primarily as a CYA measure. Instead, they enforce those rules that harm the game economy, user account security and the gameplay experience. Why would you want them not to enforce these rules?

I suppose you are trying to make the point that it is better to have a good design than to buttress a bad design with lots of rules. Regardless of the merit of that position, it is not an enforcement issue, which is all this update is about.
The problems with the game economy is that the economy has no use at all. That is what guild wars is based upon, ultimately letting people waste everything after their first 20k on pretty stuff

The problem with user account security is that the users are dumb and greedy. Bot users are not hacking anet and stealing keys, they are not guessing peoples passwords. They are stealing keys through players dumb enough to download supposed 'cheats' or even so dumb as to give the botter access to the account itself.

"Gameplay expereience"? Last I checked, bots didn't follow you out of the cities.

How much are bots really harming you, really? There are going to be false positives, there will be innocent people banned. I have faith in Anet that they are going to minimize those as much as possible, but there will be some. Do you believe that ignoring a single PM every time you go to balthazars temple is so much more important than someone else's game?

As I said before, I think we can assume anyone who runs an actual business that is profiting off gold selling is going to know how to change their IP address. Really, its not hard at all. I would LOVE anet to get rid of bots, but this current attempt will: A. Not actually help get rid of them, and B. Has the potential to harm REAL players.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 04:36 AM // 04:36   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
How much are bots really harming you, really?
They devalue my achievements and ruin my entertainment. Granted, a 5 line perl script could probably play the game just as well as me, but I would rather play with other humans than with a legion of perfect robots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
There are going to be false positives
So? Nobody is perfect, not even Anet. Only fools expect perfection, and only trolls demand it.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39   #72
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I posted this on the othjer forum and post it here to make sure Anet sees it.

Thanks Anet for you well thought out multi-prong attack on Gold farming sweat shops and the crap that goes with it. Looks like instead of being knee-jerk in your actions, which could damage the game even further, several tactics were considered and now used to counter. Very nice indeed.

I do worry slightly about the fact that I trade several 100k lots for lockpicks and such in one trade. I have friends that will give me 600k + my small profit upfront. Then I will go buy the picks and trade them. Plus I have 2 accounts that I shuffle money back and forth regularly too. I only hope that your investigations can discern these instances.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
All EULA's are basically a collection of things that need not be enforced, but are put in just in case the company has a problem and needs an excuse to terminate your account.

Have you ever heard of anet banning people for any of these reasons:

An account owner being under the age of 18? (I started my account when I was 16, guess I should be banned)
Having character name resembling the real name of any person, company or trademark? (also applies to guild names)
Not keeping updated account information? (I've changed my email multiple times, ban me again!)
Banning people who bought a new account after already being banned on their first? (Anet actually encourages this, lol)

As stated in the EULA:

NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce any or all of these rules at its sole discretion.

I'm saying that the method they are using to enforce these rules shows a lack of good discretion.
Those all make sense legally. Technically, you aren't allowed to have your own e-mail address until the age of 18. Lots of internet law is unenforced (no downloading of music/movies) but still on the books, so all legitamate companies comply in order to avoid lawsuits (easier and cheaper to stick it into the EULA then have some parent sue GW for "turning their son into a violent murderer"). A.net can respond by saying that person was never allowed to make an account in the first place. Furthermore, a minor can not sign a contract so he technically never signed the EULA when the game was first installed so it was never legitamate.

Not having updated account information means you don't have a claim to ownership. If two people dispute owning the same account and you don't have proof that its yours, the product can be taken away from you (even if it really was yours).

And the last one is basically a "we (a.net) told them (the players) not to do it" so you can't sue us Microsoft/Sony/Michael Jordan. Again, it is all about the fact that it is easier and cheaper to cover their own butts then to risk some legal settlement.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37   #74
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So lemme get this right... It took them almost 3 years to learn how to do IP bans? If so then i can't really think of anything but "wow". And not the good kind of "wow" either.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42   #75
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I have to say nice Update Anet. What has happened they have brought 3 good updates in a row. I am shocked to say the least
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44   #76
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I had to accept the User Agreement twice :s
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02   #77
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Yeah, Gaile already mentioned some people had to sign the EU twice.


I actually have high hopes for this potentially great update, in that perhaps...

...Just in case...

...Just maybe...

...You never know...

...It's a possibility...

..."Quizas, quizas, quizas"...

...on the slight chance that...


...now they can also get rid of loot scaling. We'll have to wait and see. (Would be kinda nice.)
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06   #78
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Excellent move from Anet. I guess it's only the beginning because RMT companies will try to find ways around this policy. Ultimately it may end up in court, but as shown by Blizzard's case they can't win.

GG Anet, it's a pleasure to see you're moving in that direction.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11   #79
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Having character name resembling the real name of any person, company or trademark? (also applies to guild names)
YIKES! And I've been naming my characters after myself (to keep myself honest, BTW) all this time!

Ceterum censeo it is appropriate to implement these measures .
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47   #80
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You would need to reboot the modem and router for this change to occur.
I can't believe there are still ISPs that don't match up MAC addresses o_0

On my connection, if I change my modem's MAC address, I can't get on the network until I call the ISP because they lock the connection down by valid MACs.

Quote:
not to mention that it is illegal for an ISP to host an open proxy
I don't know where you are, but I'm aware of no U.S. laws to this effect.
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